Road To Freedom, Show 4
Host: Eleanor White

Date recording: June 24, 2005
Length: 58m, 8s
File name: show4.mp3
File length: 9.93 MB
Transcript by madelger11@yahoo.com

WEBSITES OF ELEANOR WHITE

	http://www.shoestringradio.net
	http://www.multistalkervictims.org
	http://www.raven1.net

# # #

BOOKS MENTIONED IN THIS SHOW

	"Angels Don't Play This HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology",
	by Dr. Nick Begich and Jeane Manning
	
	"Terrorist Stalking in America" 
	by David Lawson

# # #

PARTICIPANTS

ELEANOR: 	Eleanor White (host)
PAT: 		Patricia Mougey (special guest)

# # #

The God, who gave us life, gave us liberty. The problem is: there are people in 
power these days who really don't like that. Come, travel the road to freedom
with your host Eleanor White. Welcome to show nr. 4, recorded on June 24th, 
2005. Road To Freedom is a listeners sponsored show by and about all the 
targets of electronically assisted vigilante gang stalking throughout the world. 
Road To Freedom brings you the latest information on this crime wave, which 
has so far been denied by every government and private agency whose mission 
is to help those who are targets of crime. The opinions expressed are those of 
the hosts and guests and may not be those of others who are targets of 
vigilante stalking and electronic harassment, or of any person or group who 
may replay these recorded programs. Important information for anyone who 
is thinking about donating to keep Road To Freedom on the air is found on the 
the cover page of this shows website, just below the clickable list of shows. 
This shows website is "shoestringradio.net".

Vigilante stalking and the covert use of advanced electronic weapons on 
vigilante stalking targets is basically the use of lies - again: LIES - to 
motivate networked groups of citizens to destroy the lives of their innocent 
targets. These programs are about the ongoing efforts to expose this activity, 
and hopefully, to stop it. 

ELEANOR: Today we talk with our guest, Patricia Mougey, of Toledo, Ohio. 

Pat is in her early 70's and has been a target since the 1950's. Pat has worked 
in the clerical, secretarial, and sales fields. She has 15 years of experience in 
the broadcast industry, both TV and radio. Pat was the owner and operator of 
a small carry-out at one point. Pat Mougey has lived for many years in her one 
storey, detached house in a closely spaced residential neighbourhood in Toledo, 
Ohio. The layout of her neighbourhood, and the fact that Pat has been retired 
for some time, has given her a unique look into the day-to-day operations of 
the vigilante stalking perpetrators. That is because the perpetrators have to 
talk with each other and to move around in Pat's vicinity to carry out the 
harassment.

Pat, before we get into your story, can you tell us about your trip this past 
week to the local office of Marcy Kaptur, your congressional representator?

PAT: Yes, it turned out to be very successful. I made an appointment to talk 
with her aide in Toledo. We had scheduled half a hour. I think I was in there 
for maybe a total of 30 to 40 minutes. He was most willing to listen to 
everything, because I talked to him before. So, it was nothing new, except 
that I just didn't bring all the information on past visits, but this time I did. 
This time I took in some of the emails, that you and I have conversed with in 
the past, some of your explanations and feelings about how the equipment 
was operating, and why they did this and that. I took in copies of patents 
that nobody knows anything about, but that have been in force for several 
years. One (copy) shows how the brain has its own fingerprint. I gave him 
information on voice-to-skull material, that is also on your website. 

I gave him a general rundown of the experiences that I had. At that point he 
was sitting there completely in shock, because of some of the things I was 
telling him. (I gave him) one of the letters that Julianne McKinney had written 
to a prisoner some years ago, in which she tells him where he could buy this 
equipment and on what website. I told him about this, and he said: "I had no 
idea that things like this was going on." I said: "they are, and they have been, 
and they will continue to be, until something is done about it."

When I explained voice-to-skull to him his eyes literally... he was so surprised. 
He couldn't believe it. I said: "Yes, I can talk to you via this equipment, and 
no one else in the room can hear what I am saying." This was all fairly new to 
him. He did not know the depths to which agencies and research people have 
been going. 

One of the last things I said to him, was: "Did you get the book 'Angels Don't 
Play This HAARP'?" In there, you will find about one of the research projects 
of the U.S. Air force, that dealt with the fact that they wanted to be able to 
know what other people were thinking, how to control their thinking, and how 
to make them think what they wanted."

So, the whole visit was quite a success. In fact, one of his most important 
sentences was that "Marcy Kaptur has no idea that this is so complex", and 
I thought: "Oh, good! Finally! Maybe with the help of this information, that I 
had given him, and what other people are doing around the country, this is 
the breakthrough which we are waiting for, when they really start looking 
into it."

ELEANOR: Pat, I can tell you one thing: very few people have been so persistent 
with their congressional representative. If we do reach a breakthrough here, you 
certainly deserve all the credit as one of the longest suffering targets - for 
almost half a century - and your mother included in that. You are certainly one 
I like to see to make the final breakthrough. 

Now, this Mr. Foot, that you saw, you have made some phone calls to him in the 
past, haven't you?

PAT: Oh, yes, I talked to them maybe once or twice a year. 

When I first started, I was just as terrified as I think most people are: if I 
say this, or say that, will they think I am crazy? Will they want to take me in 
for a mental examination? And I think in the past I probably held back a lot in 
what I should have given him, maybe out of a little bit of fear, but with each 
visit I became more confident. At this point in time, especially because of my 
age, I thought: "Hey, maybe I don't have the financial means to help in the 
future and to continue talking to him once or twice a year", which was the 
reason I took in so many things. 

Before that I did give him a lot of important information, but I didn't give him 
letters from other targets, or anything specific like that. I did deal with some 
of my experiences. What I gave him was factual information. I stressed the 
fact that the dates on this material might be old, but the information within is 
still true and factual. It is being used right now. 

ELEANOR: Absolutely, and you had an interesting experience not too long ago, 
when you phoned him up, and found out that you were talking to somebody else?

PAT: Oh, yeah. The perps {perpetrators} like to interfere with my telephone 
calls. I didn't know it, until one day I was calling their office. I can't 
remember who answered the phone, because I have done it so many times. 
They had recorded his voice mail, so that the person who answered - 
supposedly from his office - said that he was out. I left my message in the 
voice mail, but I knew the voice didn't belong in his office. I knew that the 
person who answered the phone, was someone here in the neighbourhood. 
So, I did report that too. 

They used to do this with senator Metzenbaum, when he was in office here. 
And they did it with Marcy Kaptur, years ago, right after she was first elected. 
But, back then in the 80's, it took me a while to catch on. It has been a long 
time that they have been getting away with that. I think it is time that we 
stop them. They have got to be stopped!

ELEANOR: Indeed, and if I remember correctly: on one occasion you checked 
with them, and nobody in the office ever remembered your call. So, it clearly 
was somebody else intercepting your calls. 

PAT: Yes, that's right. That was awhile back. They also intercepted a phone call 
recently that I made to Medicare. 

Oh, let me give you a bit of background. Since I am 73, I have special coverage. 
One of the medications that I have to take is not covered by Medicare. I made a 
phone call to see if Medicare changed it, although, I didn't think they had. The 
person who answered the phone, did not go in to all of the questions that 
Medicare usually would go into. They told me it was covered, while I knew it 
wasn't. I knew that they hadn't asked me the right questions. So, I can never 
make a phone call out of my home, knowing that it is going to the right person. 

ELEANOR: Amen. I have the same experience, when making repeat calls to 
businesses or government agencies. What this means is for us, targets, is that 
everything you mail them, you have to send it registered at least, and that is 
expensive too. 

PAT: That's right.

ELEANOR: Now, in your half a century of being targeted, you had a number of 
symptoms that you have taken to doctors. Can you give us an idea of which 
symptoms doctors have been absolutely unable to find physical causes for, like: 
having been kept awake all night? 

PAT: Yeah, I have been kept awake all night. 

A few years ago they concentrated on closing my throat muscle, so that I 
couldn't get a breath. I was in the emergency room (for that) twice. If you 
concentrate on your breathing, you can feel where the air goes up and down, and
they were closing those tiny muscles through which you get air. I had nearly 
enough ability to call 911 and to get the ambulance to take me to the hospital. 

I have been kept awake all night. I used to have pains in my hand...

ELEANOR: Before you go any further, just let me explain something here for the 
listeners. 

In earlier shows we talked about the unclassified technologies that can cause 
severe disruptions of someone's life. We do not know how the perpetrators are 
able to manipulate our muscles, but they are (able to do this). They can 
manipulate one tiny muscle. What they can do is mind-boggling. They can cause 
snapping sounds inside your ears, nose, and throat. We honestly do not know how, 
but many of us report this on an ongoing basis, and I am one of them.

So... go ahead!

PAT: Well, I guess one of the things would be my hand. I had a lot of pain in 
one hand. I had it X-rayed, but there was absolutely nothing wrong. This was 
20 years ago, or more. They said there was nothing wrong (with it), and I looked 
at the person and asked where the pain was from, because at that time I was still 
learning. I didn't know what was going on. I really didn't. Just like anyone else I 
had to learn through experience. 

I have had a high heartbeat racing, for which I did nothing to cause. 

I have had a high body heat. I am absolutely burning up then, so warm and so 
hot. I don't know what would cause that. 

I would feel stings on my arms and legs, like cigarette burns. I don't know what 
would cause that. 

Balance problems: for instance, there are times when I am sitting with some 
paper work in the dining room. All of a sudden, I feel like they have hit me in 
my rib or my stomach, which almost knocks me out off the chair. I literally 
loose my balance.

I am sometimes kept awake all night. There are times when I am kept awake for 
24 hours. 

There are other times when they knock me out. It's a little 3 to 5 seconds 
notice that I am unconscious. 

One day, I have been knocked out for a period of 5 hours. I don't know what 
causes this, but you do bring up the fact that the LIDA machine, or something 
like that, may be used. We don't really know what it is, but they do it well, 
whatever it is. 

ELEANOR: Yes, we know the LIDA machine can do that, but not so quickly. The LIDA 
machine lulls you to sleep rather than it knocks you off your feet the way 
current day technology does. So, what we are facing is equipment well beyond the 
technology that we talked about on our earlier shows. Let me also say that many, 
many targets of this harassment syndrome report these things. Pat is not alone 
at all. 

You also had some sabotage?

PAT: Oh, so many things, I can't even remember! I know it's nothing to laugh at. 

I am on oxygen now, as you know. I carry a small portable tank around in a 
little bag, it looks like a small duffle bag. I was at the doctor's office the 
last two days, and the most recent thing I noticed is that they have somehow the 
ability to turn the oxygen tank off, so that I forcibly have to get the key and 
turn it back on, while I am traveling. I can't imagine how it happens, but it 
does. I had to do it three times the other day, so that I could get air. 

They come in the house and take things. They may return these things, or they 
may not. If they return it, it's never brought back to the place that they took 
it from. They used to do this to my mother too. I would leave things on the 
counter in the kitchen as a surprise when she would wake up in the morning. She 
would never get them, because they came into the house and took them. 

Just all sorts of little things. At the moment I can't recall all of them. 

They are definitely very good at being sneaky, let's put it that way. 

ELEANOR: Yes, listeners, and this is clearly something big. This is not your 
ordinary neighbourhood teenage hackers. These folks can force you to stay 
asleep, so they can get into your house, and do this stuff, unless you have 
locks on the inside. And they do it quite often. 

PAT: Going back into the late 70's... I do want to bring this up, because this 
is very important - I was working for an employment agency. I lived in the state 
Michigan for a while. When I came back I worked in the sales area. Within two 
weeks, two different men came in, and filled out an employment application, and 
they listed "CIA-agent" as their prior experience. They were looking for work in the 
sales area. They both gave their home address as: "Detroit, Michigan". And I 
was living in Toledo, Ohio. Now, there is no way that a CIA-agent has to go 
looking for work at an employment agency. Let alone, coming from a bigger town, 
like Detroit, to Toledo, Ohio. So that immediately started bells ringing in my 
head. I thought: "What is going on around here?" 

{unintelligible}

We do know that the NSA had an employee named John St. Clair Akwei, who filed 
against and sued the National Security Agency, because they began using 
equipment on him. Some of the things that happened to him, where happening to 
me. 

I didn't know about this until 1996, when I got my computer. I knew what I had 
been living through, but I had never heard of the word "mind control". I didn't 
know you at the time. I never heard of any of these things, until I started 
surfing around on the Net. I then discovered that mind control and these 
lawsuits existed. And then I met you. From then on I began learning everything. 

You were such a big help by explaining all of these things to us, and to make us 
understand. Without you, with your technical background, we would really be in 
trouble. 

ELEANOR: Well, one of the things that a bit of technical background can be 
helpful at, is telling what things are not caused by. For example, much of what 
happens to us simply can't be done with conventional radio signals. We don't 
know what type of signals is used. I did spend two years with a shielded 
enclosure around my bed, which stops all incoming conventional radio signals, 
but the harassment continued unabated. So, this is something really advanced, 
something that the average college professor doesn't know about. 

PAT: That's very true. the same that opened my eyes in this area. 

They're using an agency that hires and trains security guards. I found (that) 
out by direct conversation between those people and me. 

I overheard two conversations. When they work on my house they get paid more, 
than when they do on their regular job. 

They get in touch with the parents somehow. I don't know what sort of stories 
they tell them. My mother and I were labeled "two of the biggest prostitutes in 
the city of Ohio" on one of the skits that they were making. They did a lot of 
skits, so that I had to hear them as they were happening outside my home. I 
don't know where (these stories) are originating from, but since that period of 
time, they probably used this background to convince people that I am not a very 
nice person and so fort.

They get the parents on their side, and then the parents use their children. 

In one case - it was in the 80's or the 90's - they hired kids in the 
neighbourhood, who eventually, as they began driving, would play their boom 
boxes. They made as much noise as they could, up and down the street, and 
parking their driveways. It started 10 o'clock in the morning and they would 
continue until 2 or 3 o'clock the next morning, on and off, for 7 days a week. 
It took me up to 5 years of keeping notes to get it stopped. I took their 
license plate numbers, where they worked, what they were saying, and what they 
were doing. 

I watched these kids turn from normal teenagers in high school into people who 
don't care how much noise they make. I watched two brothers especially. I'll 
never forget it. They were told to play loud music. They didn't want to do it. I 
saw that they didn't want to do it. They were standing on the sidewalk and kind 
of move back and forth, shuffling their feet and you could see they felt bad 
about it. I used to hear one talking how bad he felt to make all those noise. 

The other kids were hired to travel the neighbourhood. First they used beepers, 
then they went to walkie-talkies, car phones, and then cell phones. One of their 
first phrases out of their mouths, as they were driving up and down the street, 
was: "Ok, I see you back at the farm." That was one of the expressions that they 
use at the CIA, instead of "I'll be back at the office." These kids were absolutely 
turned into different personalities in a matter of 3 years time, less than that.

I believe it took me such a long period of time to get it stopped, because the 
local blockwatch people where also a part of the organization. 

I went to a meeting one night. Following the regular block watch meeting, they 
had another meeting that was in relationship to the harassment of the entire 
neighbourhood - which is about a 6 to 8 block area. I found out that these 
people were really concerned, and they knew that the {unintelligible} was coming 
from the street and the block I lived in. Well, I knew that too, but I had 
assumed the wrong thing, (because) that night I realized that they were really 
concerned about it. So, I made known what was going on, and after 2 or 3 letters 
to the local police chief and other people, we managed to get it stopped. 
However, the electronic harassment still continues. And they recently tried to 
do it again. 

I live near an university in this neighbourhood. So it is easy to get people 
that need a few dollars. They get people that work a few days a week. 

A particular house is rent to the same perps over and over again. There are 
certain houses that seem to be... I guess "trainer" would be a good word, 
because they have permanent owners that live in their home and are involved in 
it. 

So, you can say that adults are behind training the kids. 

This is an area where they transfer them a lot, like: John might live two doors 
away for a year, and then somebody else moves in, and John gets transferred to 
somewhere else, and Mary might be trained for however long they have to train 
them. She might stay for 2 years or just 6 weeks, you just never know. There's a 
big in and out going, not only of college students, but simply because of the 
"nature of the game" employees. 

ELEANOR: {The author} David Lawson made it plain that this is a huge 
organization with hundreds and hundreds of people involved in every city. 
Naturally, there has to be training. Evidently, they'll be used in the spot 
where they are doing their training.

PAT: When it got started in this neighbourhood, it took them about a year, 
before they were going heavy. 

I do remember that they couldn't meet their payroll on time. I don't hear a lot 
of things voice-to-skull, but because these people are human, and they forget 
that their voices are heard. Especially in the summer time they do tend to talk 
loud. I heard a lot of conversations. I know that they sit in their driveways, 
literally waiting for their paychecks to be delivered on Saturdays. So it took 
the the agency quite a while to catch up to the people, that they were hiring, 
to pay them on time. 

ELEANOR: It's interesting that {the author} David Lawson mentioned that the 
vigilante gang stalkers he investigated received very low pay. It sounds like 
your folks are higher up on the ladder. 

PAT: I think they may be... the trainers, especially. 

I can't begin to explain the personality change after they are in the group for 
awhile. That's one thing that sticks in my mind. They change personalities 
completely. Once they are in the group for a while and rise up in the 
organization, they are completely different persons. I did overhear a 
conversation once about how he was really going up within the organization. 

ELEANOR: There was a psychology experiment where the half of the college kids 
went into cells of an unused prison, and the other half were guards. It was 
planned for 2 weeks and they had to call it off after 2 days, because the guards 
became sadistic in just 2 days. When you have absolute power over someone, and 
when you can invade every aspect of their life, day and night, then you're going 
to have a personality change, unless you have a decent moral, which most people 
these days don't have. 

PAT: When you say 2 days... my gosh, that's frightening. I can understand that.

ELEANOR: Having been through the military myself, I noticed that some of my 
classmates in boot camp, when they got another rank, became different people. 
This is fairly common. 

About the technology, you have one interesting face of that... the time you went 
to the park to read books. Can you tell us about that?

PAT: Yes, that was when I was laid off from one of my jobs. I went to a Metro Park 
to read in the afternoon. I was there probably 4 out of 7 days, and people 
kept looking at me all the time. I couldn't figure out why, although I had a 
general idea, because of other experiences. It turned out that the perps where 
able to pick that up whatever I was reading, and broadcast it through the entire 
area. So, everybody over a large area in the park was forced to hear what I was 
reading. And one day, a little boy looked at his mum - they were only 2 or 3 feet 
from me - and asked: "Mummy, how can she do that without moving her lips?" 
I knew then that I was right in other things that I had been expecting. 

ELEANOR: Pat, for the listeners, let me say that the American Air force and NASA 
are working on a system where "silently said to oneself"-thoughts can be picked 
up with electromagnetic coils placed against the throat, which is where the 
vocal chords are. This technology is seriously being worked on right now by 
government agencies in the United States. It is not that far out. 

Our group does not know, whether they can mine your brain for things you haven't 
put into words. We do know that once you silently say something to yourself, that 
they can pick that up, if they want to. One of the ways that they let us know what 
they can do it, is when we say something to ourselves about what we are going to 
do, then they will show up to make sure that, whatever we have planned to do, 
will fail somehow. This happens so many times that I have no longer any doubts 
about that. 

PAT: Well, another serie of heavy harassments going on - I had written a letter 
to the chief of the local police. I had delivered it, because things were going so 
bad, that I was really angry. I delivered it in person at the building. That night - 
again, this was summer time and people forget that their voices can be heard - 
a man and a woman came home, and she said: "I hope that you can do something 
about the letter she sent." 

Now, number one, I had just written and sent a letter that day. Nobody knew I 
wrote it, supposedly. But yet, she knew I wrote a letter and she must also have 
known what I put in it. His answer was: "I already made a phone call" 

Well, I got mad. I sat down and wrote a second letter, and enclosed more 
material. I delivered that letter the next day. And within 24 hours there was 
another person trying to get one of the perps to put new equipment into her 
house. I flatly heard her say to him: "Not in this house, you won't!", because 
they didn't know what the reaction was going to be at their headquarters. 

Well, that made me mad too, because I knew they were still reacting 
to my letter. I wrote a third letter. The next thing that happened was I heard 
another couple talking to the "supervisor" of the neighbourhood that they 
wanted to back out. They really wanted to get out of it. The "supervisor" 
said: "I have an appointment this Thursday, and we'll have the situation 
cleared then." 

At that point in time I thought: "You are gonna have what situation cleared 
out? What lies are you going to be telling now?" And I just gave up. I didn't 
write another letter. 

But for a week they really were worried. 

Let me give you one more example. Probably a year or two before that I managed 
to contact the chief of police. It was a different one at that time. I told him some 
of the things that were going on. This was when I had that heavy harassment. 
His letter reached his office on one day, and a few houses down I heard some 
men talking. One man said to another: "Man, he took me to the wall and 
said: 'You get that stuff out of there! Get it out of there today, and let them 
take care of it. ' "

And the next day I heard things being moved out of the house and into a van. 
They moved it to somewhere else in the neighbourhood. So, I know that lies are 
being told, but I don't know who "them" is, that's my problem. 

ELEANOR: That's everyone's problem. We know that it is big and we know that 
what they are doing could not be accomplished by local criminals. This is being 
covered up by the highest levels of world government. What is happening to Pat, 
is happening to all of us across North America, and in Europe and Asia as well. 
This is not a little crime by any means. What we are doing here today, listener, 
is to give you the insight into what it is like, day by day, from someone who 
has been targeted longer than most of us.

Now, when you first got hit with voice-to-skull, you told me about your first 
awareness of it, which were comments while you were taking a shower?

PAT: Yes, that was scary. I was taking a shower, and all of a sudden I heard 
people commenting on me taking a shower, with comments like: "Oh, look, how 
scared she is! Look, she is trying to cover herself up! Look!" And they laughed 
and laughed. And I was terrified. I was absolutely petrified. And they just kept 
it up. It was probably one of the worst experiences of my life. 

ELEANOR: And one was a co-worker?

PAT: Yes, there is always a co-worker involved. 

They used tape recorders to tape everything that was said from the time I left 
my work until I returned the next day. And the next day at work they would 
play back my words to let everyone hear about it. And they did this every place 
that I worked. They are now using voiceprints. I overheard a conversation about 
that too. Before the voice prints they used a reel-to-reel recorder. And what else 
they use I have no idea. I don't know, but they have to keep track of what the 
person is doing all the time. 

I have even sat in my house at one point, not that long after I moved in, and I 
heard a recording of my voice from another house. I was sitting here, listening 
to it and thinking: "Now, what can I do about that? Absolutely nothing. There 
is no way to proof it."

ELEANOR: Yes, and let me remind the listeners, that I covered this in earlier 
shows. The question that we are often asked is: "Why would somebody spent so 
much time and money to harass someone who is basically a 'nobody'?" 

The answer isn't clear yet. We don't really have a good answer, but I can say 
this much: if you start with the fact that it has to originate from the highest 
level of world government. The ultimate goal, from the top at least, is probably 
a recreation of electronically enforced serfdom. They want each one of us as if 
we are robots. They want to know everything we are thinking, doing, and saying. 

Voice-to-skull is probably to become what in George Orwells "1984" is described 
as "telescreens" in every house, where information is constantly being fed to 
people and the telescreen is also watching them. What they now have 
accomplished is that they don't need an extra device. They can go directly from 
wherever their equipment is into you skull and establish two-way communication 
with you that way. 

So, this is why "nobody's" are being targeted, because this is their plan for 
everybody. Eventually, - and I am speculating here - it will be perfectly normal 
to hear, from cradle to grave, voice-to-skull (messages), including commands, 
and probably punishment as well. These people have the ability, as Pat has 
described, to inflict physical consequences on the target. I have had pain 
so painful I can't even describe it. Thankfully, it was only two times for a few 
seconds. 

By the way, it is interesting that the perpetrators choose often TWO times to 
demonstrate a capability. And then they may use it, but on a much lower level.

This is worldwide organized, and you listener should be concerned about this, 
and learn what you can. 

We have plenty of websites on it. My website "raven1.net" links to a very wide 
range of websites, and that is where you can learn a great deal about what is 
going on, including what Pat is describing here. 

About surveillance... you have seen some interesting things on monitors in 
neighbouring houses, haven't you, Pat?

PAT: Yes, I was just thinking about that. 

At a time when I was walking home from work, I heard a lady screaming at the top 
of her voice: "She is not in there!" I looked up at a window and there was a 
small monitor, facing the street. She kept screaming: "She is not in there!" And 
it was the inside of my home that I was looking at on the monitor. Of course, I 
couldn't proof a thing, when I had called the local authorities. They would 
never admit that this was going on. 

At the same time in the area in which I was living, I sat down in my kitchen and 
looked out of the window, and I saw the TV set in the house next door. It was 
facing the window so that I had to look at it. (On the TV screen) I saw a 
picture of me looking out of the window. As soon as they noticed that I saw it, 
they turned it off and left the house. 

ELEANOR: That's interesting. One of the things they really want you to know, is 
what they are up to, but they arrange it in such a way that you can't report it 
without looking like you're crazy. 

PAT: That's right.

ELEANOR: They are very skilled at it. The general public probably has trouble 
with realizing how easy it is to do skits like that, particularly when you are 
in a group. It is very hard to harass your neighbour when you are alone, because 
it will be pretty clear what the source is. By rotating all of this harassment 
among different people, there is no person you can point to, and as a result the 
police tend to write it off as mental illness. That is very unfair, and we hope 
that a honest detective will come along someday and begin to realize that this 
is really going on. 

I can report that I passed along a book review of "Terrorist Stalking in 
America" by the author David Lawson to the local police here, not long ago. 
They took offense, and for one full month I was followed everywhere I walked 
in the city. And I don't ride a bus or drive a car. I walk everywhere. Every 
place I walked I was surrounded by police cars all the time. There was one 
instance when one of the cars stopped and (they) shined a spotlight directly 
in my face during the daytime. So this is not a joke with them. They know 
what is going on, but it is very hard to get them to do the jobs that they 
have sworn and are well-paid to do. 

PAT: There is also another thing too, that should be known. Some years ago 
the U.S. news and world reports published some of the devices that the 
government was working on. I have seen one of these devices in use around 
here with my own eyes. In the article they said it resemble a fireplug.

{unintelligible} 

It is about 2 feet tall, and the top of it goes to a point like a rocket. Every 
time I saw this instrument being wheeled out on a dolly, it was a different 
colour. It might be yellow, pink, black, or green. 

At a different point in time - when they were setting up their house as a base 
-  I noticed she brought home - why she did it this way I never understand - 
a lot of file folders, and they all had multi-coloured pads. She could easily have 
put them in a bag, but instead she had them under her arm, and they kept 
flipping. And she kept looking at my house, and the more they were flipping, 
the more I would see. The way it happened was kind of funny. After that I 
would see them coming in for their daily instructions, and when they left, they
would have a piece of paper in a plastic file folder, that might be green or 
yellow, depending on the colour code of the day. 

Now, prior to that, at different places where I had worked, at least 2 or 3 
places, I used to see tracks on the floor that reminded me of a narrow bicycle 
tire. I thought that someone would get in trouble, because they tracked out 
that dirt and grease in there. When I saw them pushing this instrument on a 
dolly, then I realized this must have been going on wherever I worked, 
because it was a narrow tire, just like the narrow track I have seen in offices. 
I am only guessing on that, but I think it is connected. 

ELEANOR: Of course, one of the things that they love to do, is to show us stuff 
to make us complain about it. We don't know whether what we see is legitimate or 
a decoy. We do know that both military and intelligence operations often include 
decoys. So this makes it twice as hard. The name of the perpetrators game is to 
get you to complain about so many things that you will be ignored by local 
authorities, because you are looked on as a crank.

PAT: Well, one thing I didn't do was complaining to local authorities about all 
of this, because they didn't want that to happen. I didn't want to be labeled 
a crank, because I knew that these things were really going on. There is no 
way I could have proofed any of it. 

I can't proof that they are using voice-to-skull with each other, but I know 
that they are doing it, because I hear and see it when they are coming out 
of their houses. You can only hear one side of their conversation. For 
example, one day one of those people came out of their house, and said: 
"Stop talking to me! I am going outside!" She wasn't using any kind of a 
phone. She emphasized the whole thing for the person not to bother her. 
She knew that they couldn't talk outside, because I would have noticed 
that they were that close to me. 

ELEANOR: It is interesting that the perpetrators are apparently being targeted 
the same way we are. It is our guess, and I think you agree with me, Pat, 
that those of us who are least likely to be cohered and fooled by these people 
are the ones that end up being the targets. And the ones that are more 
gullible end up being the perpetrators. 

PAT: It could be! 

I do know that they have so many ways to do things, that we just don't know 
what they are going to do from one minute to the next. 

My mother was a lady with {unintelligible) and a fractured hip. She had a large 
apartment with cable TV, and she never left the house. She couldn't stand bright 
lights, because of her eye problems. When she was alone, she just had her TV set 
to keep her company. 

They manipulated her with sounds so badly, that you could hear the ticking of a 
clock magnified ten times. The noise in the bathroom would be magnified ten times. 
When people would leave the apartment across the hall, and you could hear their 
voices as if they were in the room with you. Especially at her age, it worried her 
so much, that she wouldn't say anything about it to anybody. She was afraid that 
she couldn't handle it, when she had to move. She didn't want to be forced out. 
All these things were going through her mind. 

She telephoned the cable man one day to say that she wanted the cable cut short, 
so that her TV set could be placed the farthest away from the wall, that was 
adjacent to the other apartment. That way they could never say again that they 
could hear what she was watching. She kept TV turned down so low that you had to 
be two feet away from it to hear it. They had her sulk over the fact that the sounds 
would bother other people. She lived there for years and years. This never 
happened, until the perps took over two apartments in the building, and that's 
when they started working on her.

ELEANOR: And your mother had something, which a number of us have 
happened, and definitely falls under the heading of "we don't know how it 
works", being: vibration. Objects will simply start to vibrate, and yet they 
are not connected to anything that is vibrating, and this also applies to 
body parts. I remember you talking to me about that.

PAT: Right, that the door downstairs would shut, and (then) the lamps on her 
table would shake and rattle, and the pictures on her wall would move around. 
She had witnesses to that. 

ELEANOR: Yes, that is clearly beyond what a slamming door could do in an 
apartment building. 

I had keyboards vibrate so badly that I couldn't type. Yet, as soon as walks 
into the room, it stops. This is part of their games. 

It is important, listener, that you realize that this is big. You need to start 
learning about it. Even if you don't accept what we are saying right away. 
Suspend judgment, and learn more about this, because it could be you next. 

A survey in 2002 returned a weight of about 1 person out of 100 telling us 
that they had all, or most of the classic symptoms (of vigilante gang stalking). 
Those symptoms are found on the website "raven1.net". 12,000 People took 
that questionnaire in a 24 hours period, and 1 person in 100 returned the 
result, saying that they had all the symptoms.

Now, if that applies to all of North America - and there is good chance that it 
does - that means that there are 3,000,000 people in North America who are 
going through this right now. You probably know one of us. You probably also 
know that they are not likely to tell you about it, because they don't want to 
be regarded as crazy. 

So, if you know someone who looks like they are having severe problems, and 
they won't talk about, it could be one of us. So, give them a chance. 

PAT: That's true. Give them a chance and listen to them. Keep an open mind. At 
least read the material that is available, and then make up your mind. 

I used to make assumptions based on the wrong information. For instance, I 
thought that in this neighbourhood they had everybody sold up, until I was brave 
enough to get out of my mindset and to look into the situation. I then found out 
then I had been wrong. I had been assuming where I shouldn't have been.

ELEANOR: They do have the funds to move people into the apartments next-door, 
but - as you say - certainly far from the whole building. Their idea is to get you 
paranoid to the point that you suspect that everyone is harassing you, but they 
are not. That's very important too. 

We are getting close to the end here, Pat. There's just one thing that you 
mentioned: when you were working at the radio station, you had co-workers 
complain about the way you came to work. They were tracking you. 

PAT: Oh yes, certainly when I was hired. I walked into the door and one of the 
galls came to me and said: "Pat, which way did you come in this morning? You 
are driving us nuts." And I thought: "Why would she care how I come in?" And 
I did tell her, but that was definitely a hint, that either she thought I was 
stupid enough to realize what she was saying, or she didn't care. I don't know 
which. 

ELEANOR: Yes, the point to be made is that co-workers are recruited.

PAT: Yes, they are.

ELEANOR: Unlike mobbing, which is stalking and harassment by several people in 
the workplace, with us it continues into the community. As I mentioned earlier, 
one of the questions that we are being asked, is: "Why would anyone do this? 
Why would anyone pick on you?" 

Well, harassment by a group happens in school, in prison, and in the workplace. 
What we are asking you, listener, is to understand that these things do go on in 
the community as well. It is not that hard to believe, when you think about all 
the other places where this happens. 

Some human beings gravitate towards this kind of work, when they feel that 
they are doing the community a service by doing it - based on lies told about the 
target, like they have been saying for years that Pat is a prostitute and so is 
her mother. That has been said about me as well. They're basing it on lies. And 
that's all there is to it.

Pat, thank you very much for being with us today. 

PAT: You're welcome.

ELEANOR: As developments happen, perhaps we will have you on again at 
some point. Thank you so kindly. 

For more information of vigilante gang stalking and electronic harassment, 
please see the links to other websites on this shows website, that is 
"shoestringradio.net". 

Well folks, that is it for today. I invite you to join us again next time as we 
travel the road to freedom. 

And remember: FREEDOM ISN'T FREE.