ROAD TO FREEDOM Show #9 TITLE: Interview with activist Sueann Campbell HOST: Eleanor White DESCRIPTION: Sueann has been active in educating the public in the greater Austin (Texas) area for several years. In this interview she shares some of her experiences and lessons learned. FILE NAME: show9.mp3 DATE: July 23, 2005 LENGTH: 59m, 36s WEBSITES OF ELEANOR WHITE http://www.shoestringradio.net http://www.multistalkervictims.org http://www.raven1.net WEBSITES OF SUEANN CAMPBELL http://www.stopcovertwar.com http://www.stopcovertwar.com/dew.html http://www.stopcovertwar.com/tee.html KEYWORDS 3 corner stones of harassment Allan Watt (secret society researcher) "bee stings" as harassment camera as remedy case of perps trading couches crowding in shops as harassment DARPA and NASA research marriages busted up by perps mental illness caused by harassment mind reading ability of perps photocopy machine failing prayer as remedy synchronizing activities as harassment symptoms of exposure to Directed Energy Weapons (DEW) telephone as tool to isolate people T-shirt, flyers, business cards and banners unemployment as tool used by perps witnessing for each other ADDITIONAL INFORMATION Allan Watt, the author mentioned by Eleanor White in this show is interviewed in show #8 of ROAD TO FREEDOM, which is titled: "Interview with secret society researcher Alan Watt" For more information about Alan Watt go to: http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com VOICES ELEANOR: Eleanor White SUEANN: Sueann Campbell (guest) ========================================================= The God who gave us life, gave us LIBERTY! The problem is, there are people in power these days who really don't like that! Come, travel the ROAD TO FREEDOM, with your host Eleanor White. Welcome to show #9, recorded on July 23, 2005. ROAD TO FREEDOM is a listener-sponsored show by and about all the targets of electronically assisted vigilante gang stalking throughout the world. ROAD TO FREEDOM brings you the latest information on this crime wave, which has so far been denied by every government and private agency whose mission is to help those who are targets of crime. The opinions expressed are those of the hosts and guests, and may not be those of others who are targets of vigilante stalking and electronic harassment, or of any person or group who may replay these recorded programs. Information for anyone who is thinking about donating to keep ROAD TO FREEDOM on the air is found on the cover page of this show's web site, at the bottom. This show's web site is: http://www.shoestringradio.net Vigilante stalking, and the covert use of advanced electronic weapons on vigilante stalking targets, is basically the use of lies - again: LIES - to motivate networked groups of citizens to destroy the lives of their innocent targets. These programs are about the ongoing efforts to expose this activity, and hopefully, to stop it. ELEANOR: In past shows, we have explained what vigilante stalking and electronic harassment are, and how they combine to totally DEVASTATE the lives of the selected targets. On today's show, we will talk with activist Sueann Campbell, from Round Rock (Texas) about some of the ways in which vigilante stalking targets cope with this as-yet unstoppable crime. Sueann Campbell is a retired electronic technician. She has been a vigilante-stalking target for many years. Sueann has a straightforward website on vigilante gang stalking at: http://www.StopCovertWar.com Sueann is also an activist on a range of general political issues, focusing on the Texas capitol Austin. Sueann's work, and the purpose of her website, are explained well by this quote from the entrance page of "StopCovertWar.com": "This site is about preserving Constitutional rights for all Americans by informing the people of flagrant Government abuse of those rights. We are NOT a militia group, nor do we believe Constitutional rights can be preserved through violence. We advocate citizen participation, education, and government accountability. Let us be clear: We are not anti-government, however; we are anti CORRUPT government." Sueann, welcome to ROAD TO FREEDOM! SUEANN: Thank you, Eleanor. It is good to be here today! ELEANOR: Can you first tell us about the activism items that are for sale on your website? SUEANN: Well, we have a T-shirt for sale, which is good to wear to marches and rallies, or even to the grocery store and post office. It is designed to help finding other victims. The biggest problem this cause is facing is that there are many unknown victims. That needs to change! ELEANOR: It certainly does! You have a page with the T-shirt and some flyers, which are sold through your website. SUEANN: The T-shirt is for sale. The flyers can be downloaded for free. The page is: http://www.StopCovertWar.com/tee.html These are tools for people who would like to be activists for our cause. ELEANOR: Yes, and I can tell you: I have one of Sueann's T-shirts, and it works great! Particularly when you are stuck in a line somewhere, like at the post office, the grocery store, or the convenience store. The emblem and text is on both front and back of the T-shirt. You can't beat it for informing people in warm weather. The perpetrators don't like us to inform the public. When the perpetrators place a lot of people ahead of us in line, maybe we will give them second thoughts about doing that the next time. SUEANN: When you are standing in those long lines, then that's a given opportunity to advertise the cause. Probably nothing concerns the perpetrators very much, except the possibility of targeted individuals finding each other, getting together, and being a witness for each other, or working at an activist plan to furrowing out what is happening. There are a lot of victims, but the trick is to find them. Victims don't have the money to put advertisements in magazines or newspapers. The only way a person of limited means has, is through flyers and T-shirts. ELEANOR: Yes, and I like to report something interesting that I have observed. I have had an activist sign on my backpack for a couple of months now, which I wear everywhere. I used to be stuck in long lines in the supermarket, but I am not anymore! And I don't get the mobbing that used to happen in the supermarket or the convenience store. They clearly don't want anybody to read that sign. It's just amazing how well it has worked. And the inspiration came from you, Sueann! SUEANN: A few others have reported the same thing. It's apparent that this type of harassment and stalking is a lot less effective if it is not kept secret. It is designed to make the targeted individual look mentally ill. If it becomes common knowledge that there are gangs of thugs running around that are doing this kind of things, then it is not very effective anymore as a weapon of terrorism. [10:00] ELEANOR: Indeed, and as I mentioned on a recent show, I spent all of last week trying to get some other activism done: iron-on transfers done by the local photocopy shop. I made 6 trips in 4 days, and I still don't have a working transfer. The gal at the shop finally got me one transfer and a second one on a different type of material, but these transfers were screwed up. And every time I would go to the photocopy shop, she was on the telephone to tech support and telling me that her colour photocopier had gone down. She couldn't figure out how to get it working again. And this is a professional photocopy shop! So what we are saying here is that advertising is something they really don't like! Targets who are listening to this show may want to have a serious look at Sueann's website and think about wearing a T-shirt. SUEANN: Targets can also post contact information on one of my web pages. Again, PUBLICITY is what really makes the silent stalking ineffective. If it starts to get known what is happening, then it make the perpetrators' job more difficult. Shining the light on them, or at least the threat of that, is one of the few tools that are available to us. ELEANOR: You still have that banner on the back of your pickup truck, Sueann? SUEANN: I was able to use the banner for a whole month without taking it off, but the wind damages it and will eventually tear it up. And I can't open the tailgate while it is on there. So I took the banner off. I have put another political sign up there, but I will use it again in the future. ELEANOR: It is very impressive. Sueann has a large 3/4-ton pickup truck, and it's like a rolling billboard. At any rate, on to our topic... Perhaps the most important way to cope with vigilante stalking is by NETWORKING. Sueann has long been a supporter of networking. She has a networking page on "StopCovertWar.com" to help targets to reach out to others in their area. Here is the header from Sueann's "networking" page: "Tired of isolation? Looking to communicate with other Targeted Individuals? There are Millions of Victims out there. The trick is to find them! "Register here by sending a brief description of your situation and contact information. Do not forget city and state, although city is optional. There is no automated program for registration so you will need to follow the directions on the victim networking page on StopCovertWar.com." Have you had much response from that, Sueann? SUEANN: We have people that call in from time to time and want their name on that list. Some people won't even put their email address there, because they are concerned about their privacy. Or their email is continually hacked, and they figure that it won't work anyway. It is very important to make contact with somebody that understands, because one of the goals of the perpetrators is to make the targeted individual feel like they are the only one in the whole world, and that they are mentally ill and need to be on psycho-active drugs, which can destroy their brain cells or have other horrible effects that are irreversible. What the targets need to learn is that they will gain something by contacting fellow targets, which depends on where they go with it. It is a sad fact that while the economy disintegrates that people use gang stalking to supplement their income. That's what happening, and it is spreading. ELEANOR: Yes, and you had reports of cases where perpetrators were prevented from finding work, just so that they can be forced to do crimes against others. SUEANN: Yes, I did observe that. A very nice person, of whom I thought would never turn into a perp, finally gave up after having a job opportunity jerked away from her repeatedly and she had financial obligations to take care of. After she was trained as a perp - about six month to a year later - I was musing aloud: "This is just the dirtiest thing to do to somebody. Why would anybody do this to somebody?" This perp looked at me with a very apologetic look on her face, and answered: "Because it SO hopeless. When you don't have a job, then you will become homeless and then you will look incompetent and lazy." So they use that against people to pressure them into becoming a perpetrator. Another thing that I have heard through the hotline is that the perpetrators threatened to do things to their children if they don't join in. There are all kind of ways to get anybody in the world, because people have their limits. Especially in our society which requires so much money to live and to keep a roof over your head. You have to get your income going all the time. If there is a break in it, then it doesn't take long before you live on the streets. It specifically seems to be designed that way. ELEANOR: And the perpetrators take full advantage of that, don't they? SUEANN: The perpetrators take full advantage of that to pressure people. In fact, it looks like they are trying to line up two sides here: if you are not a perpetrator, then you are going to be a target. They turn family members against each other. I also think they use mind control to bust up marriages. It has nothing to do with feminism. It is what they do with their brain. There are technologies out there that are far beyond what most people know, and it is only available to rich people. ELEANOR: {The author} Allen Watt was mentioning that in secret societies a college professor is considered the lowest level of knowledge. A college professor will laugh when you tell the stuff that is happening, even though it is the truth. Over my years of being in activism, I have heard from several people that they find that their partner becomes repulsive to them the instant that they approach their partner. The way they describe it sounds like a form of mind control. It is like being hypnotized and commanded that the person standing there is repulsive. SUEANN: I think that is definitely one of the methods they use. I also believe that our society as it is - in which everyone needs two jobs to pay their mortgage - is another factor that works against the family. And the schools are terrible and dumbing down the children. That is another one. Sometimes they just cause the passion to go out of the marriage. One of the partners, usually the male, will simply not be interested anymore, and then here comes the solution and suddenly he is interested again. They use all kind of tricks, and when one trick doesn't work then they just use another one. [20:00] ELEANOR: And if that doesn't work, they make you want to overeat. Again, listeners, this works like hypnotism. We do not know how it works. Just a short time ago, Allen Watt reported on his show that all the employees of the photocopy shop that ruined his book, were acting like they were zombies. SUEANN: That is true. They seem to be able to plant subroutines in people's brains without their knowledge. And it can be triggered, but we don't know by what. We sometimes observe people after they get a phone call. They hang up and their eyes glaze over. They go through a five minutes subroutine and then their eyes will turn to normal. What they did was totally unrelated and ridiculous, but they still remember it. That's scary, because these are people that will never voluntarily submit to hypnotism. So how did that ever got into them? A good question. ELEANOR: I am glad you mentioned that, because one of the things you noticed is that it seems that every time you try to interact with someone for any reason the phone rings. SUEANN: That is true. You can find that when you are in a hurry and you are you going to be late, that people are going to call you. They call you at the wrong time and keep you on the phone with all kind of nonsense. This is not their fault, because their brain is being controlled. The perpetrators can change what people do and when. They use normal people to disrupt your day, and nobody will know the difference. We usually think of the telephone as something that connects us with people. The perpetrators turn it around. They use it to isolate you, because they are the best telephone hackers in the world. The telephone is the most effective isolation tool that the perpetrators have. They selectively reroute your phone calls and selectively erase your answering machine messages and your caller-ID numbers. If you are not getting the messages that are on your answering machine, then you are not going to call those people back, and they start saying that you don't want to talk to them. ELEANOR: You would suggest then that a target always calls back, just to be sure that a call wasn't missed, and regardless whether they are expecting a message or not? SUEANN: I think the target should touch base with everybody they know once in awhile, because if the perpetrators erased the numbers on your caller-ID pad, then you will never know that someone has called you. I recommend that targets do away with their answering machines. Don't have any of them! These are just isolation tools. The perpetrators will selectively erase messages so that you become isolated from your best supporters. That is what we are hearing from people. ELEANOR: I have heard that they can even go further by imitating somebody they are not. That doesn't apply to people close to the target, like family members, but something like business calls. The perpetrators often jump in to intercept a phone call, and they pretend to be a business, saying: "Yes, we send your order out tomorrow!" while the real business never got the order. SUEANN: We are having reports of that too, as well as people reporting that they received calls that were imitated. The perpetrators probably have figured out how to imitate so many voices, causing total chaos in the communication over the telephone. ELEANOR: And your experiences with email are even worse, aren't they? SUEANN: Some people report that they received email that arrived after the date that they could respond, which are usually emails that are related to activism. There are problems with the snail mail as well. They simply try to isolate a person by interfering with all their communication! ELEANOR: Indeed. Sueann, what I am looking at right now, is the section of questions that you have on your "Directed Energy Weapons symptoms" page. These questions allow visitors to compare notes with the experiences of targets. The first question is: "You find that you suddenly awake at precisely the same time every night" Have you had any of that? SUEANN: I think all targets have that from time to time. I am not sure if it is used all of the time. I get very little Directed Energy interference nowadays. It was a lot worse. The perpetrators change the mix once in awhile. We have no clue why they do that. We have a lot of reports from people over the hotline that they wake up at the same time every night. They look at the alarm clock and it is 11:11, or something that has a meaning to them, like exactly 3:41. That is one of the symptoms. These are so subtle that people don't even recognize it as targeting. It might also be related to some noise that comes on at a specific time. If your answer is positive to a lot of these questions, then I think that you might be suspicious that you are a target of Directed Energy Weapons. ELEANOR: Another part of the problem is that, when you try to explain these things to a member of the general public, or even a family member, then they don't understand what it is like to have it happen every night, for a decade, for example. SUEANN: That is true. It doesn't set with them. The person will think that they just don't need that much sleep. And if they only have one or two of those symptoms, then they might never make a connection. ELEANOR: Right. Equally important is that people, who should be supporting the target, refuse to believe that this is artificial. They think there is something wrong with the target. SUEANN: You have to be targeted to understand what it really is and to believe it. Before I went through some of this I thought that people who complained were probably having a few mental problems and needed to slow down in their life and relax from work. I didn't believe that this could be going on, but now that I have experienced enough of it to know that these folks are telling the truth. ELEANOR: We all know what it is like to be told to go see a psychiatrist. It's not fun when you know that this stuff is really happening and not natural at all. [30:00] Another item on your list of symptoms is: "Hot needles, or 'bee stings' " Do you have any of them? SUEANN: No, I haven't had most of the items on the list. Most of my harassment has been gang stalking. The most basic symptoms are sleep deprivation, isolation, and pushing people into poverty by not allowing them to work. Around these are symptoms tailored to the individuals. We don't how the perps decide which tactics they use. We don't know what goes through their minds. ELEANOR: We certainly don't, because it is difficult to understand someone who is extremely mentally ill, and these perpetrators clearly are! They don't have a life, which is another way to say it. They are consumed with harassing specific people and making them as miserable as they can, and doing it in such a ways that everybody else misinterprets their attacks as natural problems or mental illness. SUEANN: They want folks to observe the target as if there is a psychotic process going on there, but they would be alright if these bums left them alone. What I unfortunately have observed is that some targets are pushed over the edge into delusional beliefs, depending on how long they have been tortured. For instance, these people start to believe that all food is contaminated. But imagine what it would be like to experience sleep deprivation, continually torment, following around, and preventing you from working for 20, 30 years. See what that will do to YOUR BRAIN. The brain starts to build a defense through no cause of the individual. It is unfair to drug these people and to lock them up. That is baloney! They need to be left alone. Here again, there are people who might really be ill. So, care needs to be taken when you look at somebody. Your physical and mental health is obviously going to suffer, when you are prevented from work for years. This is probably the most insidious and evil thing that can happen to someone on this earth. It is so hard for targets to cope, because they are isolated from anyone that could help them. ELEANOR: The tragedy is felt even more by the target, because all of this is out in open daylight, but nobody will believe him. SUEANN: The perpetrators are able to get away with murder, essentially. They are stealing a person's life a little bit more every day. That should be considered a crime to be locked up for life for. Such a person can't be trusted to behave normally towards other people. ELEANOR: It is sad to say that a very, very small number of people - less then you can count on one hand - seem to be troubled after years of torment, by artificially caused mental illness. It's just a brutal crime to force someone into mental illness. SUEANN: It usually takes the form of specific delusions, but they are still functional. It is a tragedy that makes you want to cry. ELEANOR: By the way, we can use your prayers, listeners. That would be very helpful. SUEANN: That is because this is a spiritual battle. This is evil. The perpetrators track, isolate, target and torture someone that they don't know for the rest of their lives. They are like a pack of wolves that cut targets out of the herd and tear them apart. ELEANOR: Everything the targets attempt to do is messed with or blocked, even the little things they might enjoy. For instance, I like feeding squirrels, but then the perpetrators walk up and unleash their dogs, encouraging their dogs to chase the squirrels away. This is what happens when you are being targeted. SUEANN: They see how susceptible you are, because you don't have someone with you to witness it with a camera and that is why they are so eager to isolate individuals. It makes their job so much easier. The main thing to do is to find other targeted individuals and to refuse to be isolated. Start hanging out together. Otherwise you are just singled out from the herd, and they are going to tear you apart. ELEANOR: And you are big about carrying cameras too. SUEANN: Camera's are important, but I always had one since I was 8 years old. It is a hobby you can have for the rest of your life. You can use a camera for all kind of things. For instance, if you need to clean up a carburetor, then you can videotape every step when you are taking that thing apart, then afterwards you can put it back exactly the way it was. ELEANOR: You taught me about carrying a camera, Sueann, and I do it all the time now. It is a still camera, because I can't afford a video camera. There is no question about it, that carrying a camera reduces the amount of harassment by perpetrators. SUEANN: That is what we are hearing from targets. Cameras do change the behavior of the perpetrators somewhat. So there are a lot of targets that start to take the camera with them when they go out. But while they are out the perpetrators can be busy in their dwelling to sabotage or steal things they need, like coffee, sugar, or butter. There was a lady living in east Austin and they were doing that every time she had to go out. Here is how blatant they are: she came home one day and they had traded couches with her. {laughing} And it wasn't even the same colour. But what can you do? Calling the police to say that someone traded couches with you? They will say that you need to see a psychiatrist. This is how they do these things. They make the targeted individual look nuts. To do that they step out of the paradigm. They step outside of what people normally believe. People believe that the only time people would come into your house is to steal something of value, like a TV or your VCR. If people come in and move things around, while the TV and VCR are left behind, lo and behold... you must be a mental case. They couldn't go to that much trouble to do that. [40:00] Why would anybody do that? You are not important. You have never worked on a secret government case. You have never done anything to anybody. Therefore it must mean that you are a mental case. ELEANOR: You are not important enough to have this happening to you, listeners. That is how they are getting away with it. They know that you don't consider little nobodies important enough to have this happening to them. So they can do it with impunity. And you would normally never believe us until you visit our website or listen to our shows, but this is the truth. SUEANN: Actually, folks have no way to believe the targets until it is happening to them. When they think it is happening to them, then they start listening pretty quick, because it doesn't fit the paradigm of what we know of crooks. ELEANOR: There is some interesting information on your website to test if you are being targeted, while you quote some interesting cases. Here is one: "Be aware of your conversation in your home. "While you {Sueann} were working on a project, you said: 'I need #10 3/4 inch flat head screws.' And then you arrived at the store to find all the screw bins full, except the #10 3/4 inch flat head screw bin, which was completely empty." SUEANN: That is true, and similar things have come over the hotline from several reports. It's not just the screw bin. It could be orange Gatorade. It is obvious the shelves are just stocked up with that. You say: "We are out of Orange Gatorade. We got to go to get some!" and you put that on your list. You get there and every kind of Gatorade is on the shelves, but there is a big empty space where the orange Gatorade was. There are a lot of reports of that kind of things. Everything is stocked up to the ceiling, except the shampoo, soap, or whatever. If you have said that aloud in your house than you don't need a bug finder to know that somehow they are hearing it. ELEANOR: I have been a target for 25 years, and being an engineer, I often inherited the job of going to the hardware store for various companies I worked with. It happened to me so many times I can't count it. Probably a thousand times in my 25 years of being a target. In many cases I wouldn't even say it to anyone. I simply measured up a job, decided what is wanted, and write that on a list. And when I arrived at the hardware store those items were all out. SUEANN: I have heard that from a few other people that were calling in too. We don't know how they are doing it. Some people think the perpetrators have a way of reading minds. And they may have, because they are so technically advanced. ELEANOR: We know that the NASA and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) are right now studying an unclassified project - which actually means they've already done it 10 years ago - for ways to electronically pick up the faint nerve impulses in the vocal chords of - say - a pilot in a jet or a space shuttle. By monitoring those impulses and converting them to words, they can literally listen to the things the pilot is saying to himself. So, that isn't that far out. We don't know if they can "mine" your mind for something you are not converting to words. The coping advice to targets would be: if you have an idea, do not silently convert it to words, and you maybe safe from scrutiny. We don't how this advanced technology works, but this is certainly a good piece of advice. Roughly speaking, I think it works for me. How about you, Sueann? SUEANN: I haven't tried that, but I would say that is a good test to see if they can read your mind or not. Not thinking about vocalizing and see if they still can find out what items, or not. That might be an interesting experiment. I haven't thought about it that much. If there listeners our there that want to try that, then let us know how it works out for you. ELEANOR: Going on through your tests for whether you are being electronically targeted or not, you say this on your website: "Since "through the wall radar" (actually called millimeter wave or terahertz wave technology) can operate in PASSIVE mode, i.e. it sends out no signal but can still see through non-conductive walls, only by clues from the neighbors can you identify if this type of harassment is used on you." For example: if you are sleeping alone at night - with no one else in the room, does a car drive down your normally quiet street every time you get out of bed to go to the bathroom? If that happens a LOT, not only one time, but over weeks and months, then you might suspect, according to Sueann's website, that through-the-wall radar is being used on you. And through-the-wall radar is common nowadays. It is used at airports all the time to screen not only luggage, but also for people carrying weapons. And another thing that Sueann mentions on her website is what we probably call "synchronized activity". Can you tell us a bit about that? SUEANN: It is basically what you described there. There are callers who say that if they do get up in the middle of the night then there is a car passing by, sometimes in what normally is a dead-end street. What we are now seeing too is their ability to control impulses, because some of these targets report they get up to go to the bathroom. They went in there and they had hardly any urine coming out. So what these perps can do is to give you the impulse to get up to urinate, even if your bladder is not full. We don't know if they are controlling the impulse of the target, or if they are using the millimeter wave radar in the car. We just know that they want to synchronize things with the target, because when a target talks about that kind of a thing, then they sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. This is all designed to make them look mentally ill. ELEANOR: In my case and a few others, I have skits put on for maybe a few weeks. One particular guy in an apartment near mine would step outside his door and turn his key in the lock at exactly the same time I would do while on the way to work. I have always lived very close to where I worked and I often go on early. So I was doing this at random times. And it was exactly the same at - say - 3 days a week for maybe 6 weeks. It was a mind-blowing incident. These guys would get to the elevator exactly the same time I did. The only way I got around it was to simply use the stairs, because after a while it got to be a kind of a mind game. SUEANN: I shared a place with only one working bathroom for about a week or two with another person. It seemed like we were both trying to get to the bathroom at the same time in the middle of the night [50:00] I finally figured out what I would do. I would just lie there and wait. And sure enough the bathroom door would open and they would go in there, because the perpetrators were giving us the impulse to urinate at the same time so that we would get in each other's way. So after that, if I woke up and felt I needed to urinate, I would just lay there for a minute or two, and sure enough this other person got up and went into the bathroom. It was another way of isolating. Isolation is one of the 3 main corner stones of what is going on: sleep deprivation, isolation, and impoverishment. ELEANOR: It would have been something when you would want to go into the kitchen and the same thing happened there. SUEANN: I think there were a couple of incidents when they realized what was happening. After I pointed it out to them they quitted doing that Sometimes it would be the kitchen. At other times there would be like I would get out of the shower and dry my hair in the walkway, but they kept walking back and forth. When I called it to their attention that it was of no purpose, then they realized that they were being given these impulses by the perps. Just like these people whose eyes glaze over and would be talking nonsense. And then their eyes would unglaze, they sit down and go back to where they were. Only in that case it is a subroutine. In the case of the bathroom it is an impulse control. We have to realize that it is hard for people to admit, or even to think of, that other people are controlling their minds. But the people that refuse to believe that are the easiest to control. They are just puppets. ELEANOR: Yes, I was just laughing here, thinking how it would be if you would phone the police and said: "This other person is getting up at the same time that I am going to the bathroom!" {laughing} Listeners, this is how petty these mind games get! SUEANN: Yes, they actually had a purpose. The perpetrators were trying to get us to fight with each other. To have our space crowded by each other like they crowded people's spaces in the grocery stores. They are continually stepping in spaces of targets at the grocery store. ELEANOR: Isn't that true! You mentioned many times that you have to use your cart to block the aisle? SUEANN: I used to have to do that. They didn't want anybody around me with my T-shirt. ELEANOR: Sueann reported that these guys would squeeze past her... SUEANN: ...and making physical contact. They count on people not defending themselves. They want people to be a willing victim and to get comfortable with their level of torture. And if you are not going to do that then they can find other victims that will. There are plenty people out there that don't want to make waves. ELEANOR: I know very well. SUEANN: It is difficult. You have told that there was an experiment done with rats, years ago, in which they crowded them all together, and after a while the rats went berserk: killing and trampling all over each other. This is basically the same thing. Most of the time people don't even need to touch you. If they even come within a certain circumference of you, then they are intruding into your space. Normally, people don't do this. People can normally wait for you to move down the aisle to get what they want. It is absurd. If you are not going to stand for that, they are going to do this to other people. ELEANOR: Besides the activist sign on my backpack, I started carrying business cards with our websites on them. The other day I had a perpetrator whose dog was chasing the squirrels away from me. I just stood there, waiting for him to walk away from his car. He got a couple of hundred feet away. I was going to slip this card underneath his windshield wiper, because who knows a perpetrator will learn something by visiting our websites? The very moment I took a single step towards his car, he spun right around his heels and aborted his walk with his dog. He came racing back to his car, and drove off. {laughing} I do not think that was a coincidence at all. They didn't want me to give that information at the perps, because not all perps understand what they are into. SUEANN: That's right. They are lied to. ELEANOR: All the time. SUEANN: They are told lies about the target. They think that they are doing a good thing. The perpetrators think that are getting rid of people, and they think that they are sending them a message to change their way and clean up their acts. That is all a big fat lie that they are told to get the perpetrators motivated to do this crap. ELEANOR: Ordinary people would just not take this on as a living if they knew the truth about this. I discovered a very few perpetrators who figured out that I wasn't what I was being labeled as, and they turned around and became friendly. So it can happen. It is not something you can count on. Sueann, we are about the end of our time here. I would very much like to thank you. Not only for coming on to the show, but for all the hard work you have put into your hotline and into your website, and your efforts in the greater fight to expose and stop many different government crimes. Any single crime that is being perpetrated by the government now and is exposed brings the vigilante stalking target community closer to finally being heard and believed. The problem is that the government's reputation is still a bit too good for people to realize that they need a lot of investigation and scrutiny. I wish you all the best with everything you are involved in right now, and I am hopeful and looking forward to having you on again. SUEANN: Thank you very much for having me on your show, Eleanor. I would urge other people to also become an activist and to do whatever they can. Every little bit helps. We can all work towards a better world with less corruption. And maybe some day the targets will be free! ELEANOR: Let's hope and pray! Just let me close by reminding the listeners that for more information on vigilante gang stalking and electronic harassment, please see the links on this show's website, which is: http://www.shoestringradio.net The websites listed there are internally linked to many other websites, because there are literally thousands of websites providing information about these crimes. There is zero coverage in the mainstream media, and we are hoping to change that. Well, folks, that's it for today. I invite you to join us again next time as we again travel the ROAD TO FREEDOM. And remember: FREEDOM ISN'T FREE!